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representatives vote 2022-11-24#6
Edited by
mackay staff
on
2022-11-25 15:54:44
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Title
Description
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- The majority voted in favour of a [motion](https://www.openaustralia.org.au/debate/?id=2022-11-24.49.3) to *disagree* with [amendments (1) to (3)](https://www.openaustralia.org.au/debate/?id=2022-11-24.44.1) introduced by Fowler MP [Dai Le](https://theyvoteforyou.org.au/people/representatives/fowler/dai_le) (Independent), which means they failed.
- ### What did the amendment do?
- Ms Le [explained that](https://www.openaustralia.org.au/debate/?id=2022-11-24.44.1):
- > *The amendments I have risen to move will do the following: increase cooperation between the commission and individuals of multicultural backgrounds; and assist those with language barriers to be fully understood and also to clearly communicate with the commission. Amendment (1) will ensure translation and interpretation services are available to Australians who require them. It means the commission will need to provide contact details for translator services in a situation where there is a language barrier. This amendment will ensure that is followed through to summons and the commission's investigative processes. Amendments (2) and (3) will ensure the commission will provide individuals with appropriate mental health resources and support through the commission process. Being called in front of an integrity commission can be daunting, can be shocking and can lead to suicide—and it has led to suicides. I want to ensure that, when the commission is established, investigating corruption is not at the cost of life, especially a life who was not corrupt or may have never been found corrupt.*
- Read more about the bill in its [bills digest](https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Bills_Legislation/bd/bd2223a/23bd035).
- ### Amendment text
- > *(1) Clause 63, page 64 (line 10), at the end of subclause (4), add:*
- >
- >> *; and (c) include contact details for translator services.*
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- > *(2) Page 65 (after line 19), after clause 66, insert:*
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- >> *66A Services that must be provided to persons appearing at hearings*
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- >> *(1) The Commissioner must cause the following to be provided to a person who appears at a hearing:*
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- >>> *(a) appropriate translation services during the hearing;*
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- >>> *(b) mental health counselling and support services, provided by an appropriately qualified social support worker or health care professional (the treatment provider).*
- >>
- >> *(2) If, under paragraph (1)(b), a person is provided with a counselling or support service by a treatment provider, neither the person nor the treatment provider is required to do anything under this Act that would disclose any statement made or any information given as part of the counselling or support service.*
- >
- > *(3) Clause 73, page 68 (line 30), at the end of subclause (3), add:*
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- >> *; (f) whether a person giving evidence has a reasonable level of English language proficiency;*
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>> *(3) Clause 73, page 68 (line 30), at the end of subclause (3), add:*>>>>>> *; (f) whether a person giving evidence has a reasonable level of English language proficiency;*>>>>>> *(g) the need for cultural sensitivity if the person giving evidence is from a non-English speaking background.*- >> *(g) the need for cultural sensitivity if the person giving evidence is from a non-English speaking background.*
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representatives vote 2022-11-24#6
Edited by
mackay staff
on
2022-11-25 15:54:04
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Title
Bills — National Anti-Corruption Commission Bill 2022; Consideration in Detail- National Anti-Corruption Commission Bill 2022 - Consideration in Detail - Translator and support services
Description
<p class="speaker">Dai Le</p><p>by leave—I move amendments (1) to (3), as circulated in my name, together:</p>-
- The majority voted in favour of a [motion](https://www.openaustralia.org.au/debate/?id=2022-11-24.49.3) to *disagree* with [amendments (1) to (3)](https://www.openaustralia.org.au/debate/?id=2022-11-24.44.1) introduced by Fowler MP [Dai Le](https://theyvoteforyou.org.au/people/representatives/fowler/dai_le) (Independent), which means they failed.
- ### What did the amendment do?
- Ms Le [explained that](https://www.openaustralia.org.au/debate/?id=2022-11-24.44.1):
- > *The amendments I have risen to move will do the following: increase cooperation between the commission and individuals of multicultural backgrounds; and assist those with language barriers to be fully understood and also to clearly communicate with the commission. Amendment (1) will ensure translation and interpretation services are available to Australians who require them. It means the commission will need to provide contact details for translator services in a situation where there is a language barrier. This amendment will ensure that is followed through to summons and the commission's investigative processes. Amendments (2) and (3) will ensure the commission will provide individuals with appropriate mental health resources and support through the commission process. Being called in front of an integrity commission can be daunting, can be shocking and can lead to suicide—and it has led to suicides. I want to ensure that, when the commission is established, investigating corruption is not at the cost of life, especially a life who was not corrupt or may have never been found corrupt.*
- Read more about the bill in its [bills digest](https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Bills_Legislation/bd/bd2223a/23bd035).
- ### Amendment text
- > *(1) Clause 63, page 64 (line 10), at the end of subclause (4), add:*
- >
- >> *; and (c) include contact details for translator services.*
- >
- > *(2) Page 65 (after line 19), after clause 66, insert:*
- >
- >> *66A Services that must be provided to persons appearing at hearings*
- >>
- >> *(1) The Commissioner must cause the following to be provided to a person who appears at a hearing:*
- >>
- >>> *(a) appropriate translation services during the hearing;*
- >>>
- >>> *(b) mental health counselling and support services, provided by an appropriately qualified social support worker or health care professional (the treatment provider).*
- >>
- >> *(2) If, under paragraph (1)(b), a person is provided with a counselling or support service by a treatment provider, neither the person nor the treatment provider is required to do anything under this Act that would disclose any statement made or any information given as part of the counselling or support service.*
- >>
- >> *(3) Clause 73, page 68 (line 30), at the end of subclause (3), add:*
- >>>
- >>> *; (f) whether a person giving evidence has a reasonable level of English language proficiency;*
- >>>
- >>> *(g) the need for cultural sensitivity if the person giving evidence is from a non-English speaking background.*
<p class="italic">(1) Clause 63, page 64 (line 10), at the end of subclause (4), add:</p><p class="italic">; and (c) include contact details for translator services.</p><p class="italic">(2) Page 65 (after line 19), after clause 66, insert:</p><p class="italic">66A Services that must be provided to persons appearing at hearings</p><p class="italic">(1) The Commissioner must cause the following to be provided to a person who appears at a hearing:</p><p class="italic">(a) appropriate translation services during the hearing;</p><p class="italic">(b) mental health counselling and support services, provided by an appropriately qualified social support worker or health care professional (the <i>treatment provider</i>).</p><p class="italic">(2) If, under paragraph (1)(b), a person is provided with a counselling or support service by a treatment provider, neither the person nor the treatment provider is required to do anything under this Act that would disclose any statement made or any information given as part of the counselling or support service.</p><p class="italic">(3) Clause 73, page 68 (line 30), at the end of subclause (3), add:</p><p class="italic">; (f) whether a person giving evidence has a reasonable level of English language proficiency;</p><p class="italic">(g) the need for cultural sensitivity if the person giving evidence is from a non-English speaking background.</p><p>I know I'm constantly harping on about multicultural Australia, since being elected. In my electorate of Fowler, 70 per cent of our population was born overseas and speaks English as a second language, and, therefore, on every decision we make in this House, I have to take into consideration that which actually goes to my community.</p><p>First of all, I applaud the government for taking the necessary steps to end corruption and prevent future corruption. It is important to also note the tireless advocacy of crossbench members who have come before me, like the former member for Indi, Cathy McGowan, and those in other places. It is important to also give recognition to my colleague the current member for Indi, Dr Helen Haines. She has been a passionate driver of this bill. She holds herself to the highest standards not only in this House but in her community every day. She is a prime example of what it means to lead with integrity and transparency.</p><p>The amendments I have risen to move will do the following: increase cooperation between the commission and individuals of multicultural backgrounds; and assist those with language barriers to be fully understood and also to clearly communicate with the commission. Amendment (1) will ensure translation and interpretation services are available to Australians who require them. It means the commission will need to provide contact details for translator services in a situation where there is a language barrier. This amendment will ensure that is followed through to summons and the commission's investigative processes. Amendments (2) and (3) will ensure the commission will provide individuals with appropriate mental health resources and support through the commission process. Being called in front of an integrity commission can be daunting, can be shocking and can lead to suicide—and it has led to suicides. I want to ensure that, when the commission is established, investigating corruption is not at the cost of life, especially a life who was not corrupt or may have never been found corrupt.</p><p>I thank the government for making a note in the explanatory memorandum and for suggesting it will make sure the commission considers this important point in my amendments, but frankly I don't think that's enough. I understand the government believes all Commonwealth agencies should act with the highest standards and provide basic services like mental health support. But a suggestion is just that—a suggestion. It is not a mandate and it is not safeguarding the wellbeing of Australians or any individual that will appear before the commission.</p><p>I made my arguments for these amendments clear in my speech on the second reading debate of the bill, and I stand by those arguments. English is my second language. I learnt it, I grew up here, and I know how daunting it is when you get up in front of any authority, even for myself at times. So I thank the opposition for their support and those on the crossbench who will support and protect Australians, especially those of culturally and linguistically diverse backgrounds and, in fact, all communities across Australia.</p> <p class="speaker">Kylea Tink</p><p>I want to thank the member for Fowler for moving these amendments. I think one of the things that is true of our society at the moment is that we are at a tipping point. We are going through a massive cultural change as a nation. While we proudly herald ourselves as an example of one of the strongest multinational countries in the world, all too frequently we still tend to lean towards one part of our history.</p><p>I think that what the member for Fowler has done here is provide us as a parliament with an opportunity to recognise that we need to shepherd our parliament through this cultural change. To her point, putting instructions such as these into notes in a memorandum is not strong enough in this case. In my seat of North Sydney, nearly 50 per cent of the community were not born in Australia or have a parent who was not born in Australia. Thirty per cent of my community speak a language other than English at home. I believe it is essential, as we start to develop processes and procedures like this, that we are ensuring that they are not Anglo- and English-centric and that we are enabling our entire community to be protected and participatory in the process.</p><p>The other point that I would make, as this National Anti-Corruption Commission comes into existence, is that we are actually living in a time of unprecedented mental distress across our community. People are already experiencing high degrees of stress as a result of COVID lockdowns, global tensions and climate pressure. Again, I commend the member for Fowler for identifying that this is a good safety net to bring into this process. I know that much has been made in this chamber about the fear of what would happen for people being brought in front of it. I think that this is an infinitely practical suggestion in terms of amendments that would make this legislation stronger.</p> <p class="speaker">Allegra Spender</p><p>I just want to briefly add my support for these amendments from the member for Fowler, and just reflect on what makes Australia great. I think one of its key elements is its wonderful multicultural society. I believe that we are the most successful multicultural society in the world. But, as the child of a migrant and a grandchild of migrants, I'm very aware of the barriers that language can have for people, particularly when dealing with authorities. My grandmother never learnt to speak English, and that can be quite typical of communities. It's absolutely critical for those people to make sure that, in the very intimidating circumstances of an ICAC—which I think would intimidate any member of this House, let alone members of the community—we put safeguards in place to ensure that they have the best access to justice and the best ability to protect themselves.</p> <p class="speaker">Bob Katter</p><p>Just briefly, I've spoken about what we used to call new Australians. I want to speak about older Australians. There are a number of First Australians communities in the Cape York and Gulf Country where they still speak, as their language, the original language of that country, and they will also greet these amendments very favourably.</p> <p class="speaker">Mark Dreyfus</p><p>I thank the member for Fowler for her amendments, and if I could simply say to her that it is not harping to express concern for multicultural Australia, to express concern about the need for translation services and to express concern about the need for support services for anyone that has any kind of disability being required to participate in this commission's activities. It is the government's expectation that the commission would make available appropriate translation, mental health and other support services to persons who require assistance to participate in a hearing.</p><p>As the member for Fowler has noted, updates to the explanatory memorandum will ensure the commissioner must consider permitting a person to disclose information to obtain assistance, including from an interpreter, to enable a person to engage fairly with the commission's processes. More broadly, it is my strong expectation that the commission will put in place procedures to ensure that a person has access to an interpreter or a sign language interpreter where required. This would be consistent with the approach that's taken by federal courts and by federal tribunals, as well as other Commonwealth agencies with hearing and examination powers. It will be managed as part of the commission's operating procedures.</p><p>Clause 73(3) of the bill sets out a range of factors that the commissioner may have regard to when deciding to hold a hearing or part of a hearing in public. This will include consideration of any unfair prejudice to a person's reputation, privacy, safety or wellbeing that would be likely to be caused if a hearing were held in public. The factors also include whether a person giving evidence has a particular vulnerability. The commissioner will be able to consider factors beyond these matters, as the list of factors at clause 73(3) is not intended to be exhaustive.</p><p>The government agrees that it is important for those participating in the commission's processes to be able to access appropriate mental healthcare assistance. We have introduced amendments responding to the recommendation of the joint select committee that would expressly permit such disclosures. The government does not support this amendment.</p> <p class="speaker">Helen Haines</p><p>I applaud what the member for Fowler has put to us today with regard to her very deep and legitimate concerns for protections for people of non-English speaking backgrounds. I do have a problem though with the third amendment around the threshold for public hearings. I say to the member for Fowler that while I absolutely agree that all consideration must be given to ensure that people from non-English speaking backgrounds have every support enabled to them, I would agree with the Attorney-General on this point that the threshold for public hearings does allow for the commissioner to make special consideration of a person who may fall into this category. I would just like to put that on the record.</p> <p class="speaker">Milton Dick</p><p>The question is that amendments (1) to (3) moved by the member for Fowler be disagreed to.</p><p></p><p></p> -
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